spoke, he misrepresented the platform on which he and paul ryan are actually running. that's quite a statement. and a new york magazine jonathan challenged romney over his economic plan that seems to rely on some magical numbers and thinking, quote, so romney is a candidate of a 20% cut in tax rates, a new plan to cover people with pre-existing conditions and higher defense spending and he will accomplish it all by eliminating federal funding for pbs. the question is can obama and his team win the post debate debate by highlighting some of this nonsense and romney's fuzzy language? willy brown is the former mayor of san francisco, former speaker of the house out there. joan walsh is editor at large or salon and the author of "what's the mat we are white people." i want to get to these points. can you win on the fact having lost perhaps on performance value? >> it's very, very difficult to get people in the world observing politicians to overcome to the substance. they always go for style. they always are influenced by performances, and i believe mr. obama took a licking last night.